pted that appointment. You went down to Lansing. I would like to know
if you can remember, for example, where you slept. How many days in a row you
were there? Did you have a secretary? Did you write your opinions in your green
pen on long paper? Did you have a law clerk? How did you decide these things?
Did the A.W. get around a big table on the third floor down there? Justice Voelker: We had conferences. Mr. Lane: Do you remember... Justice Voelker: What happened was...I don't know if it still happens, but at
that time, there was no Interim Appellate Court, and the court was very busy
with mixed cases, a lot of them the equivalent of bent fender cases. I mean, we
were getting the full rush from Circuit trial courts and at this time, there
was apparently a conservative-liberal feeling all over the country, apparently,
and when I was appointed...let's see, there was George Edwards and Smith.. Mr. Lane: Talbot Smith, right. Justice Voelker: Talbot Smith. I know Edwards well and knew Talbot well. Mr. Lane: Gene Black... Justice Voelker: Gene Black, and there was one other. Some of them...it was a
chaotic time for me, I mean, a best-seller, a movie, two campaigns. It's a
wonder, in a way, that I survived the bloomin' thing. Mr. Lane: Do you remember, for example, what time of the day that your
meetings started and how many of them there were, and were there... Justice Voelker: We had a meeting place...we had a room of our own, and we would
meet and go over the cases. It was...what was the court, eight then or
nine? Mr. Lane: Eight, right. Justice Voelker: Well, I think it was about five and three, the liberal. In
other words, at the time I sat there, the court was mostly inclined to be
liberal. Mr. Lane: You were said in the newspapers at the time to be the tilt
vote, that is, you made the fifth for liberal interpretation of the Workers
Comp. laws and that sort of thing. Justice Voelker: Yeah, there was a lot of decisions. You might have heard of a
nudist case, too. I wrote a decision on that and John Dethmers was an old
friend of mine from law school days, was the Chief Justice at that time, and a
good Holland-Dutch conservative, and John and I disagreed on a lot of things,
even though we remained friends, and... Mr. Lane: You know, I went over a lot of the cases in your time trying to
get a feel, you know, of what we're talking about, and one of the things that
struck me, and I would like your thoughts on this subject, was that even though
you had a split philosophically, time after time after time, cases that you
wrote, that came to you to prepare were either unanimous or if they were not
unanimous, there were be concurrent end result. There was not the kind of
sharp, bitter antagonism evident at that time in my observation that later came
to tear that court apart in figurative terms. Do you have any observation or
recollection of this? Justice Voelker: Well, I think that we tried to keep it that way. I mean, I was
personally and socially more acquainted with the liberal judges. There was an
old judge...once in a while, if I dissented from an opinion, I dissented with
the most conservative judge. Mr. Lane: I noticed that. Justice Voelker: I forget his name...he was an old judge. Mr. Lane: It wasn't Carr, was it? Justice Voelker: Yeah, Carr. Mr. Lane: You were with Carr on a fair number of cases. He was... Justice Voelker: He was a shrewd, smart lawyer. Mr. Lane: And a good judge, right? Justice Voelker: And a good judge. He was a good...he was an old-time judge. He
followed the old order pretty well, you know, and... Mr. Lane: Did you know that he ran an informal law school at night? Justice Voelker: Yes, I did know that. Mr. Lane: Back when you could read law, you know, and get your... Justice Voelker: I was quite taken with him although he never became...I mean,
he was considerably older and he was a kind of a figure on a cliff, a legal
kind of Justice Holmes of the Michigan Court, and... Mr. Lane: You and Black were very close, were you not? Justice Voelker: Yes, we were. Mr. Lane: What did you feel, a certain chemistry or how do you explain
your...? Justice Voelker: Well, I think part of it was gratitude. I think he had a large
part. I do not yet really know. I think he had a large part when this other
judge became ill that was going to be appointed in seeing that I got appointed.
We had met each other before there was even any notion that I might be on the
court. We had known each other. He was an interesting guy. Mr. Lane: But you were together on a lot of cases. You concurred in his
dissents, or he...or the other way around, although he was more of a... Justice Voelker: Let me switch to something and tell you a little about Gene
Black. Mr. Lane: Let me turn this thing over just a minute... End of side 1, tape 1. Justice Voelker talks about the election of 1957 against
Joseph Moynihan, Jr. and case experiences as a District Attorney, and then he
reads a selection from his book, Laughing Whitefish, describing the Supreme
Court room. He discusses the election of 1957 and his resignation from the
Supreme Court, decision making on the court, and the case of People vs.
Hildabridle concerning a nudist camp. Mr. Lane: That's all there is to it. Justice Voelker: I told you earlier that I ran twice in a year so state-wide was
in those days, and it may still be, the state...most of the judges are elected
on non-partisan tickets as is the Supreme Court but oddly enough, for some
reason, in its wisdom, the legislature provided that the Supreme Court justices
should be nominated by political parties. I was nominated by the Democratic
Party of Michigan and my opponent, my second opponent was nominated by the
Republicans, and he was the young Irishman whose name I cannot remember, but
the records have it. Mr. Lane: Moynihan. Justice Voelker: What is it? Mr. Lane: Moynihan. Justice Voelker: Oh, my God. Mr. Lane: You remember that, don't you? Joe Moynihan. Justice Voelker: Junior. Mr. Lane: Yeah, Junior. Justice Voelker: Junior...all right, so he was from Wayne County which was, of
course, the biggest voting bloc in the state and so I moved down there to
campaign and lived some place. I discovered later that it was a party motel, I
guess. I don't know. Anyway, I stayed at some joint. That didn't get out, but I
guess you could even park there for a few hours with a lady, but I didn't know.
I had a room near downtown anyway, and I was campaigning, and then the ballots
came out and I'll have to check on this, but my recollection is that Moynihan's
father was an old Circuit judge that had been elected and re-elected
automatically for years. Mr. Lane: Exactly correct. Justice Voelker: He was, you know... Mr. Lane: A fixture. Justice Voelker: A fixture in Wayne County politics and so part of my problem
was to be running against his son, Joe Moynihan, Jr. Well, that was enough of a
problem in itself...this name. The "Old Saint's" son was running against this
guy Traver from up-state, or Voelker, rather. Then the ballots came out and of
course, for some reason that I still don't know, the ballots read "Joseph
Moynihan", no "Junior", although the lawyer...that my opponent was listed in
the Bar Journal, and this, that, and the telephone books as "Joseph Moynihan,
Jr.". He was a young lawyer, I guess, in Detroit, or a youngish lawyer. Anyway,
it...what to do. I had to do something. I had no proof that it was shenanigans.
It looked bad, but I had to do something, and I conferred with Gene Black. He
said, "This is very serious". He knew the Moynihan situation better than I did,
what a revered figure the old man was, the "old gentleman", should I say. I
called a press conference after talking with Gene, and there were reporters
there and Bar Association, State Bar, Representative "this", Ladies Bar and
blah, blah...a big crowd, and we met, I forget where, and I got up and I said,
"I have a statement to make about the election". I said, "I thought I was
running against an opponent called Joseph Moynihan, Jr.", and so I ask my
opponent to explain, if he can, "how come Junior showed up at the Republican
convention to be nominated but Daddy showed up on the ballot. Thank you.
Goodbye."... and I walked out, and that apparently did it with the help of a
best-seller and God knows what. I think I carried Wayne County. Mr. Lane: Do you? I was going to ask that. Justice Voelker: I...you'd have to check it, but anyway, I won, and of course, I
don't...can't say it was that conference. There were many other things
including the book best-seller, movies, nightshirts, and... Mr. Lane: That was the short campaign in 1957, right? Justice Voelker: I guess it was the second one, yeah. Mr. Lane: A short time after you had gone to court, three months or
something like that. Justice Voelker: And I...what most of the candidates did was go from factory to
General Motors and hand out cards, but I certainly discovered that while Soapy,
with his 6'9" and his polka-dot bow tie could pass around the cards and they
wouldn't throw them away, they were throwing my cards away almost before I
handed them, and I finally said to myself, "This is a waste of time. These
people are so God-damned tired when they come out of work, they don't know me
and they don't give a damn. This isn't a campaign". So anyway, I had two young
guys that were helping...two young lawyers. Mr. Lane: Who were they? Do you remember by name? Justice Voelker: Bill Ellman and Damann Keith. Mr. Lane: Two young lawyers. Well, one of them... Justice Voelker: They were then two young lawyers. One had a brother
called...the writer, you know...yeah, Joyce, and anyway, we went campaigning
elsewhere and especially with Damann among the Blacks...Black churches. Mr. Lane: Was he a judge at that time or was he just a young lawyer? Justice Voelker: Young lawyer. Mr. Lane: And Ellman was...that was Bill Ellman? Justice Voelker: Bill Ellman, and his brother was the writer...a well-known
writer that has since died, and I've corresponded with him. I have met Ellman's
parents during this time. They were dear, old Jewish couple, smart, lovely
people. The father was a lawyer, I guess, but he should have been a poet or
something, I mean, a dreamy lawyer. There are a lot of people that drift into
law that should be picking apples or writing poems or some damn thing. It's
like boxing. You see guys in a boxing ring. They're big, heavy, powerful guys,
but they haven't learned...they shouldn't...they're in the wrong work. They
don't fight back. If you're in the ring fighting to save yourself and your
getting sat on your kiester, you'd better fight back, and you can almost see
it. There is similarity there. Mr. Lane: You showed some of that feistiness, I thought, in a couple of
your opinions. Do you remember the dissent that you wrote on the Sunda
Mr. Lane:
That's the old-fashioned remedies. You know, like when the kid
would get constipated, in the olden days, there was always some pretty easy way
to fix it without going through all the doctors and...
Justice Voelker:
Yeah, yeah.
Mr. Lane:
Who was the police chief? Do you remember? Was he a good old
guy to work with?
Justice Voelker:
Yeah, he was a good man to work with. I was very lucky. I had
some damn good cops. I am not talking politically. The county was mixed. I
had...during the strike, during the big strike in the 1940's, the mid-1940's I
guess it was, there was a Hell of a strike. They settled it nationally, but it
kept on up here, and we met, police chief, sheriffs, deputies, State police,
and I said, "Look, pinch everybody that's around, company or union. Pinch them.
If there's a fight, or this or that, if somebody commits what appears to be a
crime, pinch them and if it is bailable, bail them out and we'll pile them
out", I said, "If we don't, we're going to have the National Guard in here".
That was the story of the Upper Peninsula for years and years. It was the way
to break strike, call the National Guard. I said, "We've got to be playing...no
company playing or union playing...pinch anybody that commits...". Well, the
pinches piled up, the cases piled up, bail bound over to the "pooh-pooh" term
of court. It was summer vacation and what happened? They settled the strike,
finally, the local strike. The State police hailed me down one day in my car. I
happened to be going fishing, of all things. What a coincidence. They said,
"Mr. Prosecutor, they settled the strike, but they want to know if you'll agree
to dismiss the cases, all the cases". Well, I said, "I can't do that. Some of
them are felonies. Some of them are damn serious. But you can bring the word
back that if Judge Bell agrees to this idea, I won't oppose it. I won't fight
it", and there are still families that are split up from that very strike.
There were company guys that were leading what they used to call "scabs", you
know, and this was really rough and tumble, so the cases weren't dismissed.
Mr. Lane:
Now, were those in the iron mines or was this a copper mining
strike? This is iron around here...
Justice Voelker:
No, this involved the big...I don't know, I think it was the
United Mine Workers, but it was bigger. It was a national strike that got
settled nationally, but hung over here for some reason, and I forget...there's
a lot of stuff that I forget. Can I give you a short reading, Sir?
Mr. Lane:
You bet. I'd be delighted, honored.
Justice Voelker:
Have you read a book called, "Laughing Whitefish"?
Mr. Lane:
Have not read that one, no.
Justice Voelker:
Well, it involved a law suit over iron ore and finally got into
the Michigan Supreme Court, and I wrote a story about it called "Laughing
Whitefish" that did not become a best-seller or a movie...once in a lifetime,
and I tried to describe the old...this was back in the 1870's or 1880's, years
ago in Lansing, and I had heard that the court that I sat in pretty much...I
don't know if it was the same court or...it had been there for years, in the
old capitol building. I guess they've moved since, have they?
Mr. Lane:
That's correct. On the third floor of the old capitol building,
the court took up in 1878, I think, and it sat there until 1970.
Justice Voelker:
On chapter 28, page 273 of this volume...I tried to describe
the court that I knew..."The ancient Supreme Court chamber on the third floor
of the domed capital building in Lansing looked more like the inside of an
eccentric old church than a court room. Worn red carpeting covered every inch
of the creaking floor. Ill-assorted chairs lined the walls on both sides
supplementing the plain, high-backed wooden benches that looked rather more
like uncomfortable pews of some austere religious sect. A faded flag hung inert
and listless from a floor stand near the court crier's wooden cubicle and huge,
dusty portraits of bearded, by-gone judges, ceiling mostly roses,staring
cataleptic eyes peering out from great thickets of whiskers and billowy yards
of black felt robing, lined the walls like the forbidding images of obscure and
vanished saints." That's one picture of the court that I remember.
Mr. Lane:
The surroundings are, to me, very familiar. Now you're talking
about the court room itself, right?
Justice Voelker:
Yeah, and I used to sit on the end, I think, of the Chief
Justices in the middle. I sat at one end and I could look out...it was a stuffy
court room and in the summer, there were elms there, and I would look out at
those elms and hear the birds and sometimes wonder if I could find a rope to
get the Hell out of there.
Mr. Lane:
That would have been the left end of the bench, would it
not?
Justice Voelker:
Yeah. I would be on the ..., the right, but...
Mr. Lane:
Away from the building interior and where the windows were,
over on the south exposure...
Justice Voelker:
I was where the judges sat which was damn close to one
end...the extreme end of the building, the back end of the room, I mean. There
is more, but that...
Mr. Lane:
Go ahead, read some more of it...
Justice Voelker:
"It was an unreasonably hot morning in mid-June and kind of
sticky antiverting heat one rarely encounters farther north. Several of the
tall windows of the court room had been cautiously raised, supported by most
unappeachable authority, bound volumes of Michigan Law Report, and some of the
reaching, leafy branches of the stately Capital elms seemed almost to nod in
our laps". Are those elms still there?
Mr. Lane:
There are a good many. Now, they've, you know, tied them with
steel bars and wires and they preserved as many as possible, and there are a
good number of them.
Justice Voelker:
"Birds twitted and squirrels scolded noisily with a fine
contempt of court and occasionally from far below, I could hear the distant
clapping of a horse's hooves along the cobbled streets"...a little historic
"poo-poo". It goes on and on.
Mr. Lane:
You know, the reason that I wanted to get your recollections on
the particulars of how you went about deciding these cases is that...
Justice Voelker:
I must interrupt. At my age, I get attacks of urinalysis.
Mr. Lane:
Well, I think we all do.
Justice Voelker:
There's one in there around the...I'll be back
Interruption in tape.
Justice Voelker:
...and if you had three weeks. I'll tell you something.
Mr. Lane:
You know, if you would pick up...you know how the books are
bound...Michigan Reports. I brought up 347 to 358 just in case there might be
some occasion that you want to look at one of those things or refresh your
memory or read some of it, and if you would look in the front of one of those
books, you know, it has the names of all the incumbent justices and the end of
their term, who is the clerk and that's about it. If you would pick up the most
recent issue of the Michigan Reports, before '40 or something like that, you'd
see the names of the members of the court and you would also discover that
there are listed maybe 15 commissioners and there are some others, assistant
clerk and that sort of stuff and the crier, and I just wondered if you realized
the enormous difference in the fabric of the Supreme Court as it is structured
today as against the time when you sat there. That's why I wanted to encourage
you to talk about what you remembered, you know, what kind of a table it was.
What did you do when you needed to get a copy of something? You didn't have any
copiers. You didn't have a law clerk, did you? Did you have a secretary at your
side all the time?
Justice Voelker:
Not down there. I had a clerk and an assistant up here. Down
there, I was kind of on my own. It was very old-fashioned and slow.
Mr. Lane:
Do you remember the phrase "window matters" and where that came
from?
Justice Voelker:
No.
Mr. Lane:
"Window matters" were...they got their name because the record
was put on the window sill. They didn't have another place to put it, and these
were, as I recall, motion cases where, for example, there was a motion for a
stay or there was an application for leave of something like that where the
case wasn't through the first door, you know, you weren't entertaining the
thing in a plenary sense, and I suspect those were the only copies of the
record, and you had to...
Justice Voelker:
I have forgotten a lot of the mechanics of the court. I do
remember that it was a busy, trying...and an almost exalting experience. I
mean, here's a country lawyer that finally found himself on the state's top
court and I doubt that I'd even seen the room before and here I was sitting in
it in a black night shirt, trying to look judicial. I wouldn't have missed it,
and I wouldn't want to go through it again.
Mr. Lane:
When it came time in 1959 for you to go through another
campaign, do you remember what the circumstances were? You were later...some of
the Republican senators got on your case and criticized you for running,
winning an eight-year term...
Justice Voelker:
And resigning.
Mr. Lane:
Yes. Now, what do you recall about that part of your
career?
Justice Voelker:
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